Friday, October 9, 2009
The Language of Poetry
Herbert and Herrick stand in contrast to the more intellectual Donne, I think. Does the simplicity of the language--especially of Herbert--trivialize the subject? Or do you find Herbert's religious poetry and Herrick's love poetry more powerful because their language is simpler? And this is not to say that they are easier to understand--what it important is the power of the message.
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I think that Herbert's religious poetry and Herrick's love poetry are more powerful. Yeah they were easier to understand, but they had a better effect. The religious and love poetry created a picture in my head when I was reading them. Also some of the poems were written in shapes, like "The Altar" and many more. The power of the message is that you don't just look at the words when you read their poetry. They create a story and an image out of their poems.
ReplyDeleteDonne was not as powerful to me because I did not understand him. I liked Herbert better then Donne but, I still did not feel anything from his poems. I liked Herrick better then both Donne and Herbert. Even though I did not understand Herrick's poems they felt more powerful to me. I don't like poetry except in music because if you ever read what they are saying in songs its a poem. Herrick's poems when I read them sounded like they were rhyming and I liked that.
ReplyDeleteI believe that as far as Donne compared to Herbert and Herrick's poetry is more complexed and trivial. However, I feel his poems are more 'special' because his complex language allows the readers to analyze it to the way they visualize his words. I don't believe that the 'simple' language of Herbert and Herrick makes the subject more complexed because it's a lot easier for the reader to gain some type of understanding to their works.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with Wiley. I forgot all about the 'shaped' poetry, and it's affect to allow the reader to acually visualize what they are reading; instead of just reading the words and following along. Both author's works were easier to understand, but it allows the reader to not have to strain to understand the poetry and just be able to read it in its fullness.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everybody's posts. Yeah I didn't understand Donne's post at all. I did understand some of Donne's poems, but not of them. I think that if you have a rhyming poem it makes more sense, because everybody loves music right. Those are poems in a rhyming song. Yeah the shapes really do help.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading Donne's poetry, I found myself struggling to understand what the speaker of the poem was trying to say; I did not fully grasp the message behind the poem which was why I had to read some of the poems more than once. However, when reading Herbert's religious poetry and Herrick's love poetry, I found them to be more powerful. They had a greater effect on me as a reader because I was able to imagine them easier in my mind, unlike with Donne's poetry. Yes, Herbert and Herrick used language that was more simple for a reader to interpret, but their poems left a more lasting impression on my mind because while I was reading them, I was able to understand the speaker's feelings. Some poetry is very hard for me to understand, but I did not have to struggle to understand Herbert and Herrick's work; I was able to enjoy reading them.
ReplyDeleteThe poems of Herrick’s and Herbert were easier to read because of the wording used. The imagery that the writer displayed was easier to imagine because with every line I did not have to stop and think about what was being said. Whereas with Donne poems each line had to be analyzed….deeply. It made me lose the deep passion Donne put into his expression of religion. I believe with simplicity of their wording when expressing love or other feelings can be felt by more readers.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Lisa_R's posting. I also enjoyed Herrick's poems a little more than I enjoyed Herbert's and way more than John Donne's poems. Herrick's rhyming patterns did make it easier and in a way more enjoyable to read. Poems such as "Corinna's Going A-Maying" and "To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time" were not the easiest poems I have ever read, but they were much more enjoyable than Donne's poetry. A poem, in my opinion, cannot be enjoyable if you cannot understand the message of the poem and you find yourself frustrated when reading because you cannot understand what the speaker is trying to say.
ReplyDeleteI agree with PrecVRob. The simple language makes the subject a lot easier for the reader to understand the work. I guess Donne only wrote for the highly intellectual, whereas Herbert and Herrick wrote for a larger mass of readers or they wrote more with their hearts then their brains.
ReplyDeleteI think that the simplicity of the language of poetry does not trivialize the subject. I think that because whether the language is simple or complex, the poetry is still the same; it talks about the same things with similar comparisons. I do think that Herbert’s religious poetry and Herrick’s love poetry is more powerful because their language is simpler. I think depending on how well you understand the poetry can make it more powerful.
ReplyDeleteDonne's poems were way more complicated for me to understand. I had a hard time getting the concept of what he was trying to say. I don't necessarily think that the simple language of Herrick and Herbert is what made them better, I just think it was clearer to me as to what image I was supposed to be getting.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mary. The better you understand something the more powerful it will be.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Herbert and Herrick’s poetry is a lot simpler than Donne’s, I don’t believe the power for their messages out rank one another’s. I believe that all three authors just have different writing styles that reflect the way their personalities are. In class it has been often stated that Donne has a more aggressive way of approaching things, while Herbert and Herrick seem to show a certain level of restriction towards their feelings. I believe that the degree of complexity of each author speaks to the different levels of intellectual beings. Therefore I do not believe that the simplicity of the language trivializes the subject.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mary, for the most part. Like she said, all the authors have the similar subjects about love and religion, which do in way reflect the same point. But I have to disagree when she says that by “understand[ing] the poetry [it] can make it more powerful.” I believe that this contradicts her earlier statement about the simplicity NOT downplaying the subject. Although the understanding of each poem has a greater effect on a person, I do not believe that the “poem” ITSELF is made “more powerful.”
ReplyDeleteWhen an individual attempts to understand the message of a poem, it is important that the reader first understand what it is that they are reading. When it comes to Donne's poems, it was difficult for me to understand everything that he was trying to convey through his poetry. As a result, understanding the message behind the poem also proved very difficult. However, as it pertained to Herbert and Herrick's poems, simplicity in language allowed me to better understand, visualize, and connect to the messages of the poems. Of course, as stated previously, poetry is not exactly my forte. However, having stated all this, I do not believe that the language used by the three poets provides more "power" in each of their respected works. Each poet has different styles and languages that they use in their works to express their feelings, thoughts, and beliefs, as well as present messages they would like to convey. I feel that each of them does this clearly through the respective styles and languages used by each poet.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed Herrick and Herbert's poems because the concept the author was attempting to portray was easier to understand. However, with Donne's poems the reader could "read into" them more, and make their own sense of what Donne was trying to convey (unless you deeply analyzed the poems with others to understand exactly what he meant). With Herrick and Herbert, the author's intentions and meanings were clearer, which I believe made the author's message more powerful and clear.
ReplyDeleteI agree with KDPeters in that simiplicity certainly helps the reader more readily understand the author's message. However, Donne's poems catered to a much more sophisticated audience, and that's great also. Sophistication is important - authors shouldn't only write "down" to most of us (me included), they should make us want to learn to understand more difficult literary works.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Herbert and Herrick's were more powerful because they were much easier to understand and left a vivid image in your head. When you are able to picture something and almost relate to it, it becomes more powerful and clear. Since Donne's language was harder to understand and that made its point less powerful to me. I found myself concentrating on how difficult it was and just getting frustrated rather than concentrating on what he was trying to say and get across.
ReplyDeleteAmerican poet Henry Longfellow states that “In character, in manner, in style, in all things, the supreme excellence is simplicity.” I believe that the simplest things in life are often the most powerful, the most beautiful, and the most worthwhile. While Donne’s work is powerful in its own way, few people of this time are really able to appreciate it intricate workings. I know that I spend the majority of the time trying to figure out what he was trying to say in the first line! By simplifying the language, Herbert and Herrick, allow more people to capture the message and carry it with them therefore rendering it more powerful.
ReplyDeleteI’ll have to agree with Yvette. Upon reading her response I began to think. The power of the messages portrayed by each author really does not out rank one another. It is completely subjective. Some individuals may find Donne’s work more powerful because of the sophistication of the language while others may find Herbert and Herrick’s more powerful because of the simplicity of the language. What it comes down to is the preference of each individual reader.
ReplyDeleteI think that the language of poetry does not make one poem more powerful than the other. They all share the same subject but expresses different thoughts from each author's views. To me, Donne's poetry created the same effect as Herbert or Herrick's poetry, especially the religious poems such as the Sonnets 10 and 14 by Donne and "The Canonization" by Donne and "The Collar" by Herbert.These poems all discussed the relationship between God and human. Donne's poems are rather more complex as compared to Herbert and Herrick, but I think that the poems that are more complex just requires more time to read it and analyze it than the simpler ones. It took me a while to read Donne's poetry than Herbert or Herrick's poetry.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Courtney Wood's statement about Herbert and Herrick's poems leaving a vivid image since the same happened to me after reading their poems. I always find poetry harder to understand than other works of literature. I also had a similar problem as Courtney Wood when I first read Donne's poetry. At first I tried to read each individual line before understanding the whole poem since its quite complex and hard for me to understand if I read the entire piece at once.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed all the poetry. I will admit that Donne was a little harder to understand. After talking about Donne's poems in class, I enjoyed them even more. It was like putting a puzzle together. I could see little its, but not the full picture. Herrick and Herbert's poetry was great. I was able to understand them better than Donne. The language that these two authors used was simpler. I think that the simplicity of the language reflects the author's personality.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Wiley. The poetry of Herrick and Herbert created a scene right away. After reading Donne, I still did not have a complete picture.
ReplyDeleteDonne's poetry is very complex. The difficultness is a distraction from the power that can be in his work. This is what makes this poem powerless to me. Herbert's religious poetry and Herrick's love poetry are powerful. These poems were easier to understand. For me, the more i understand, the more i will become interested in the work. I could actually see an image in my mind of the topcs of these poems. The reader can easily connect with and understand Herbert's and Herrick's poems.
ReplyDeleteI agree with KDPeters, Herrick's and Herbert's choice of words were easier to understand. When a person can understand what they are reading, they will become interested in the work. The reader will also remember what they have read. Herrick's and Herbert's poems are like drawing pictures in the mind. Donne's poems were difficult. I had to read his work more than once, this can discourage a reader. No one likes difficult things. In Herrick's and Herbert's poetry you can feel the emotion. In donne's work i couldn'nt get in to it at all.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Leigh, Herbert's and Herrick's poetry is easier to understand. However I do not like poetry.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that the language of Hebert and Herrick trivialize the subject in any of their poems, it really makes the poems easier read and understand the emotion the authors are trying to impress upon us. I don’t mind Donne’s poems, but they do show his appreciation and passion he has in the complexity of meaning he uses to paint the picture to his readers; giving his readers the satisfaction a avid reader would enjoy and/or a frustration to readers who struggle to find if there is meaning to it or not.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle and everyone else who says poetry is not their forte, especially when you have to explain what you got from the readings the next time you meet for class. But this is all a learning experience that, Dr. Battles hopes, will better prepare us in our own discipline in one way or another. Poetry teaches you how to analyze ideas at deeper level. These authors our great examples of such poetry as they create a unique writing style.
ReplyDeleteI think they are more powerful because of the simpler language. Instead of having to try to interpret so many metaphors, it is a little more straightforward. However, its not necessarily easier to follow because its still pretty deep, but the language does give the reader more of a fighting chance to actually get what they are saying.
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that Herbert and Herrick's poetry had much more meaning than Donne's poetry, at least to myself personally. As a reader, Herbert and Herrick's poetry was more powerful to me because of the simplicity of language it was written in, where as Donne's poetry left me confused 99% of the time. Even though all the poets had the intention of symbolizing something important in their poems, Herbert and Herrick did a better job in conveying their topics in a way that readers could understand.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Wiley that the love and religious poems of Herbert and Herrick were much more powerful that those of Donne because they were written more simple. I had to re-read Donne's poetry a couple of times before somewhat understanding what exactly the poem was about where as in the love and religious poems, I understood the first time I read them.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of their simplified way of writing, I think their messages stand strong on their own. I don't think the simplified language trivializes the subject at all; call a spade a spade. If you had to do research to find the meaning in the poem or just simply read it, the message still stands. But just because their language is simpler doesn't necessarily mean it gives a stronger message either. I actually think the more distinguished way of writing, like Donne's, makes for a stronger message. When you actually have to work a little to find the meaning in a poem, I think, makes the message a little stronger. It's kind of like buying something with money given to you versus money you've earned. You'll appreciate whatever you buy more if you've earned the money.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with what Mireya had to say. I also did not fully grasp the message behind the poems. I also think that because the language was similar, there was more of a kept image in my mind on what was going on and understand the idea. It is more enjoyable if the message in the poem could be understood. I also agree with Yvette that each author has their own style of writing. Also, I agree that the different languages appeal to different levels of intellects. To respond to Yvette’s comment about my post, I meant to me it is more powerful because like Mireya said, it helps create a better picture, not necessary to the general population.
ReplyDeleteI believe herbert and herrick are more powerful with their love and religious poems not because they are eaiser to read, but because we can relate to them i believe that they are more modern day poems as compared to donne because it seems that people during these days are expericing the same problems that are being presented in this poetry. The word choice that is also being used is more eaiser also and the images by using metaphors make it easier to understand too.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with courtney woods the poems of herrick and herbert does leave a vivid image after reading the poetry. Thats why they are more powerful because they do create a better picture which makes it easier to understand for the reader.
ReplyDeleteI really feel that all three poets, Donne, Hebert and Herrick, are equally powerful. Although herbert and Herrick's poems are more simply worded, I feel that they are just as deep and complex as Donne's poems.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Grace. The poetry does leave it's own messaage. All though we can compare them all Donne, Herbert, and Herrick all wanted to leave some type of message and point.
ReplyDeleteI agree totally with Grace. Having to dig and find the meaning of a poem makes it all the more powerful.
ReplyDeleteI can also contradict with my own opinion and agree with Courtney in that the clearer the message is written the more powerful it can be due to it leaving a more vivid memory in your mind. The easier a work is to read, the more fun it is to read I think also. When something is hard, or non-understandable, we tend to not like it as much.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what was previously stated by Yvette. I also do not believe that the respective messages attempting to be conveyed through each author's poems have different levels in "power." Instead, each author simply has his own stlye of conveying each of those messages. For example, just as Yvette stated, Donne has an aggressive approach to his poems while the other two authors seem a little more timid in their respective works.
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