We didn't get to discuss the poetry of John Donne much in class, so let's go for it now. Which of the poems did you find the easiest to understand and which not so much? What struck you as the most dominant image/symbol/metaphor in all these poems? Why?
The poems that I find easiest to understand are the Sonnets 10 and 14, and "The Sun Rising". I think that in these two sonnets and "The Sun Rising" Donne used a different wording as compared to the other love poems. In the love poems he expanded the ideas of love so greatly that I find it hard to compare that idea or meaning to love. For example, I had trouble at first when I read "The Flea". I could not grasp the idea that the flea symbolizes the love between the speaker and his lover, and that is, the flea holds the blood of them both, which in a way, unites the two lovers. I had to read some of these poems several times in order to get an idea of what Donne expressed in his poems. For me, the sonnets and "The Sun Rising" are more straightforward and easier to understand. I was amazed at how much symbolism Donne used in his love poems, such as how he often compared love to the divine of saints and glory of kings and princes, such as in "The Canonization" and "The Sun Rising". These similar comparisons became quite repetitive since it expresses the same idea, and that is, the greatness and glory of love.
ReplyDeleteI found “The Flea” the easiest to understand. When I first read the poem, I was able to understand the fact the flea was a symbol of the two lover’s love. The flea was a place of unison for them and created a bond that the male wanted to create with the female. The most dominant symbol or image would be the compass of their love. Also, the sun is often used as a symbol. Honestly, all the poems were a bit hard to understand, I get that it’s about love and the innocence or seduction he uses but its worded in such a way that makes it confusing.
ReplyDeleteThe Flea was the easiest to read of the poems, and the hardest was The Sun Rising, which I still do not understand. The Flea has the most understandable metaphor of the poems. The flea has sucked the blood from both of its victims, which the man in the poem uses as a good reason for him and the lady to make love. He also says that since their blood has already been mixed in the flea they are closer than a married couple.
ReplyDeleteThe easiest poem of Donne's for me to read was "The Flea." At first I didn't quite understand it, especially when I had to write the discussion questions for it. But after reading it again, and the class discussion I began to understand it. The one I didn't understand as much was a little bit of them all, because with Donne's poems you really have to be able to sit and process what he's saying, and get the idea of it. With all his poems I never got what they meant in the beginning unless I read them repetively, and I still don't understand most of them. The idea of the flea was a good one to me, with the character trying to persue a young lady. The compass was another one saying that even though he didn't necessarily want to be around her she will always remain with him in his heart.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with Mary. She stated that "The Flea" was the easiest to understand. However, all of the poems were complicated to determine was the author was trying to portray to the reader. And how he used a lot of metaphors inside of his poems.
ReplyDeleteThe easiest of Donne's poems to understand for me was "The Flea." The concept behind the poem, as well as the language Donne uses within the poem, helped me to understand what it was that Donne was trying to say. Also, the fact that I have read and talked about the poem previously helps quite a bit, as well. The diction and language Donne uses within "The Flea" seems to be simpler than that of his other poems we have read. Poetry has never been a strength of mine, and for this reason poetry can be very difficult for me to understand. However, I don't seem to have this problem with "The Flea." The most difficult of Donne's poems for me to understand would have to be "The Canonization." This poem was a bit longer than most of his other poems we read, and seemed to use many different examples within each stanza to get his message across. The poem still proves difficult for me to understand even now. Donne obviously speaks relentlessly about love within all his poems. This seems to be a common theme throughout this poems. Also, he seems to use metaphors dealing with the divine to emphasize relationships to love. Donne seems to be a very religious man through subtleties seen within his poems, and I believe it is for this reason that he uses such divine metaphors within his poems.
ReplyDeleteI agree with precVRob. All the poems were difficult to read. The repetitive reading can be irritating, especially when you have read it so many times and you only have a small idea of what it is about. It feels weird to write an answer down that you are not sure of. Talking about the poems in class also helped me understand what the poems were talking about and the writer’s feelings.
ReplyDeleteI am not very good at reading poems. I had a very hard time understanding any of Donne's poems. Sure I could read them all with out to much trouble, but I did not understand any of them. It is not just Donne's poems that I have problems understanding it is just out every poem. I am just not good with them.
ReplyDeleteI would have to disagree with Hanh Do. I found that "The Sun Rising" was one of the hardest of Donne's poems for me to read.
ReplyDeleteI also found Donne's poem "The Flea" easiest of his poems to understand. It is a little "more to the point" than the other poems, which are longer and rely on more metaphors than "The Flea". The most difficult of Donne's poems for me is "A Valediction" Forbidding Mourning", although every poem I had to read several times to try to understand them.
ReplyDeleteA dominant theme of Donne's poems seems to be yearning for a love that's just out of reach to him.
I have to agree with Lisa R - poems using lots of metaphors and using a type of written languange which I am not used to, makes Donne's poems very difficult to understand at first. Many poems are difficult to understand so the reader will take from them what they want, so it may be that Donne wanted to convey a universal problem of love "out of reach", but so everyone could see their own life in his poems.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading the poems, I found that "The Flea" was the easiest to read and "The Cannonization" the most difficult to read and understand. Reading poetry is not a simple thing to do for many people, myself included, and when I read "The Flea" I had an idea of what Donne was trying to say, but had to read it more than once to try to understand more; the discussion in class helped me understand more as well. However, "The Canonization" was not as simple for me to interpret. I had to read it more than once to understand what he was trying to state; I did not fully have a grasp at what the poem was talking up until after it was discussed in class. After reading all of the poems, I think that the metaphor that stood out the most was the metaphor of the compass in "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning". It reached out to me the most because it is easy to visualize what it is describing; no matter where one part of the love goes, the other half will not be too far behind and will always be with them.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hanh Do about reading the poems more than once in order to grasp at what the author, Donne, was exactly trying to say in his poems. He used many forms of imagery as well as many metaphors, some which were easy to comprehend while others were more difficult to understand and connect with the rest of the poem. While some parts of the poems are difficult to understand, as you read more and more of his poetry, you begin to further understand how Donne uses his words and different techniques, such as symoblism and metaphors, to express his topic, which in this case was love; reading more of his work makes it a bit easier to understand.
ReplyDeleteThe Flea was easiest for me to catch what was going on. The metaphor stood out, and it was just something that was obvious to me.Poetry is not my strong point, but I was able to grasp what Donne was trying to portray.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mireya that The Canonization was not simple to interpret or comprehend.
ReplyDeleteI personally believe all the poems written by Donne that we looked at were complicated to understand. However, the easiest one I found was "the Flea". I immediately knew the flea was a symbol of the two lover's love even though the use of a flea to express this was a little strange. The most complicated for me to understand was the Canonization because even though I had read it several times, I still did not understand what Donne was trying to symbolize.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Mireya and Trista that the Canonization was hard to interpret and comprehend and couldn't grasp the concept until we discussed the poem in class.
ReplyDeleteI like reading poems, especially love poems. "The Flea" was the easiest poem for me to read by Donne. One important way to understand Donne's poetry is reading it more than one time. These poems are not easy to read i had to focus to understand the other poems and still did't really understand. The class discussions help me. I will understand more when we start to talk about them more. "The Flea" is a nice poem it is about a man not giving up on being with a girl. The title is a metaphor within its self. A flea never gives up on getting on an animal for blood. The compass was brought up in class as a symbol of love.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mireya "The Cannonization" was the most difficult to read. I could'nt figure out what the topic of the poem was exactly.
ReplyDeleteOut of all the poems, I have to say that The Flea was the easiest poem to understand. It had a lot of literal meaning. I also read it in high school so I understood it as soon as I read it. I think the hardest one to understand was The Canonization. Its language is very complicated because of the many metaphors used. I understand that there is a speaker speaking to another person. But I just can’t understand all of the metaphors used. It’s not the usual flowery poems we’re use to.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle that poetry has not been strength of mine especially with the difficult language or way that Donne writes his poems. The Flea does seem much simpler than the others because the language is easier to understand. Love does seem to be a common theme with Donne’s poems and he does in fact use metaphors of the divine to emphasize the relationships of love. Throughout the entirety of his poems, he seems like a religious guy.
ReplyDeleteAll of these poems maintain a difficulty to understand but the least difficult for me was “The Flea.” While it took several reads, I was able to understand this poem more readily than the others. “The Flea” was a bit easier to visualize, which in turn helped with the perception of it. The visualization really helped me to understand what was happening in the poem. Another reason is that the language is simpler; he doesn’t take it to the ultimate extreme as he does in other works. The hardest poem for me was “The Canonization.” I had absolutely no idea what he was trying to express, other than the common theme of love. The metaphors went completely over my head and only after discussion in class was I able to understand and make sense of it. The extent of the language had a great deal to do with me not understanding it. He was taking simple phrases and really complicating them. The most dominant subject is that of love as well as religion. He used extreme metaphors involving both love and religion. He was always able to use reference to the diving to symbolize some bond or strength of love.
ReplyDelete"The Flea" was the easiest to understand. It was obvious that the man was trying to seduce the women. This reminded me of Hero and Leander right away. I got that same," Are you really trying this hard?" feeling. I think all the others were hard to understand, especially " The Valediction: Of Weeping". All of the poems require some outside knowledge. The reader must understand the world to understand Donne's description of love. Love is what these poems are about. All of them, even the Holy Sonnets have evidence of Donne trying to express some form of love.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Mary Tran. I think, according to what I got from the Holy Sonnets, Donne tries to understand or believe in God, but does not. I think he is angry with God that he is not more clear to him.
ReplyDeleteI understood "The Flea" the best. I don't really understand poems that well, but I seemed to get that one. "The Canonization" was the hardest to read. I didn't know what he was meaning at all. I think the metaphors were great and none really stood out from the other. There were some I didn't understand, and some were easy to understand. In general I thought most of the poems were complicated to read.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lisa_R because I can't really understand poems either. I think some people are not very gifted in English, and I happen to be one of them.
ReplyDeleteI’ll have to agree with Kyle when he states that “The Canonization” was a hard read. The complicated and extense use of metaphors really complicated the piece. The poem was full of many examples yet I still could not understand the message Donne was trying to relay. What I had not considered was the length of the piece. It is indeed longer than most of his other works. The length combined with the intricate language can really discourage one as a reader.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the statements made by Yvette. "The Flea" was, indeed, the easiest read of Donne's works. This poem was more literal in meaning, rather than extensive in the use of metaphors, as is the case with most of Donne's other poems. For example, "The Canonization" contained many metaphors that proved very hard to understand. Some of the metaphors used in the poem may have been easier to understand than others, but the full poem cannot be fully understood without an accurate idea of what all the metaphors of the poem mean. Therefore, this poem proved very much more difficult to understand than the others.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Leigh's comment. When I read "The Flea" it also reminded me of Hero & Leander in the way that Leander attempted to seduce Hero. I also agree with Leigh about all Donne's poems as love poems, even if it expresses his religous beliefs in God. His main idea in all of these poems are about love, and he uses extensive metaphors to express love.
ReplyDeleteI thought that “The Flea” was the easiest to understand. The first time I read the poem I had a general idea of what the flea was and what the person was trying to say. I understood that they flea was representing the love between the two and that it had mixed their two bloods together which would be what would happen if they would be together. The blood also unites the lovers. I did have to read it twice to understand that the man was trying to get the girl by comparing the blood the flea had taken from her to what she would lose if she were to be with him. I found “The Cannonization" to be the hardest for me. I believe the most dominant metaphor to be the compass of love throughout Donne’s poems.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hanh Do about the difficulty of some of the poems and how it is better understood after you read them a couple times. I also agree that some were easier and some were more difficult. Some seemed to be more straight forwarded and some it seemed like you had to decoded.
ReplyDelete"The Flea" was definetly the easiest of Donne's poems to read and comprehend. It was easy to see how Donne used the flea as a metaphor of his relationship with his love. The most difficult poem to read was probably " The Cannonization." Honestly all of his other poems read besides the flea were more difficult to understand. Donne uses metaphors that are more hidden and complex than a flea in his other works.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lisa that "The Sun Rising" was difficult to read too, but once I read through it a few times it began to make more sense and is a beautiful poem.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lisa R. I also just don't understand poems in general. Donne's poems are very difficult to read. He uses excessive metaphors throughout his poems. It's difficult to understand his meanings without someone bringing up the main moral of the poem. Once we have a basic understanding of what is trying to be portrayed in the poem then we can take the poem and break it down to better understand the meaning.
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ReplyDeleteI found the Holy Sonnet 14 easiest to understand. I understood it because it mimics the cry of my heart to have God chase after me and make me new (which He has done and continues to do). The metaphor I liked the most was in the Canonization when he talks about the mystery of the Phoenix falling and rising again to talk about their love. I'm not sure why this metaphor stood out to me...I just like how he painted the picture I guess. The hardest one for me to understand was The Sun Rising. I could tell he was talking about love (of course) but i got kind of lost in the metaphors.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I agree with most people here that the Flea was also pretty straightforward (for Donne) and easier to understand.
ReplyDeleteTruthfully if took me a while to understand all these poems and see what they all represented symbolically. But after a third and fourth reading, “Song”, “The Rising Sun”, “The Canonization” was the hardest to figure out what was going on. The easiest were the Holy Sonnets “10”, “14” and “A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning”, “The Flea” after the second reading. The dominate image/symbol/metaphor in all these poems was the partnership of being with the one that you cared for whether it be for sex (The Flea), spending time your wife and showing the love for each other (The Song, The Rising Sun, The Canonization), being away from them for a period of time (A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning). The Holy Sonnets were symbolic for the heavens and death.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone who had trouble reading any or all of the poems. Explicating a poem for meaning and comprehension is not the easiest thing to do; it takes a lot of practice to “know” how the author is going to illustrate his/her emotions and how it is related to the different tools used in literature. Donne, without a doubt in my mind, knows how to make things complicated; but has a clever way of showing it. You really have to think what is being said and how it is used.
ReplyDeleteThe easiest poem I read was "The Flea." My having read this poem last semester in Dr. Battles class may have helped ease the reading of "The Flea," but none the less, I found it the easiest. I also thought the image of the flea as a love symbol to stand out very much. It stood out to me so much because of how unusual a flea is to compare it to love and passion. Normally when you think of a flea you think of biting, scratching, itching, annoying, etc. You wouldn't think of love and emotion being related to a flea. "The Sun Rising" was a little difficult for me to understand. Poetry is often difficult for me to read, with all the symbolisim and metaphors in it. Once you do get by all the imagery, poetry can be a really beautiful way of writing.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that "The Canonization" was a little tricky to read. It took me a while to fully understand what Donne was even talking about at first. Also, a lot of people seem to agree that "The Flea" was fairly easy to read.
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